Discussion:
The Lightning Saga
(too old to reply)
Duggy
2007-11-18 10:39:36 UTC
Permalink
Why would they change it to attach him to a different Legion?
I don't know. I was just pointing out it wasn't impossible.
It would be a complete reversal of what they've done by bringing this
traditional Legion (or close to it) back...he was never associated
with them and all of his ties are to the post-Zero Hour
version...
The Barry/Iris/Tornado Twins connect to both the original LSH & Bart.
which we know still exists...
Certain members of the reboot Legion survived a reality punch which
wiped that the rest of their timeline. These characters on one of the
multiple Earths during Infinite Crisis, but most of those no longer
exist.

We know there are references to Legion of "Three Worlds".

How do we know that the Reboot Legion still exists?
if it was Bart in that rod, it's probably going to tie into a crossover between the different
Legions rather than forcing his history onto this version...
Whoever is in that rod it's probably going to tie into a crossover
between the different Legions.
Barry seems more likely though since we know that he was wherever Wally and
family were...and all those hints in the Lightning Saga point to him.
That's nice.

===
= DUG.
===
grinningdemon
2007-11-19 05:18:00 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 02:39:36 -0800 (PST), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Why would they change it to attach him to a different Legion?
I don't know. I was just pointing out it wasn't impossible.
It would be a complete reversal of what they've done by bringing this
traditional Legion (or close to it) back...he was never associated
with them and all of his ties are to the post-Zero Hour
version...
The Barry/Iris/Tornado Twins connect to both the original LSH & Bart.
How do that connect to the original Legion...I know the story with
Barry and Iris in the future came before Zero Hour but I don't recall
anything in it that tied them to that same future.
Post by Duggy
which we know still exists...
Certain members of the reboot Legion survived a reality punch which
wiped that the rest of their timeline. These characters on one of the
multiple Earths during Infinite Crisis, but most of those no longer
exist.
Whoever said their timeline was wiped out? We don't know that at all.
Post by Duggy
We know there are references to Legion of "Three Worlds".
How do we know that the Reboot Legion still exists?
We've seen them briefly at the end of Infinite Crisis and, I believe,
at the end of 52...just one panel glimpses...and there are so many
other Legions running around...why not them too? They were my
favorite version...at least by the end of the run.
Post by Duggy
if it was Bart in that rod, it's probably going to tie into a crossover between the different
Legions rather than forcing his history onto this version...
Whoever is in that rod it's probably going to tie into a crossover
between the different Legions.
Barry seems more likely though since we know that he was wherever Wally and
family were...and all those hints in the Lightning Saga point to him.
That's nice.
===
= DUG.
===
Michael S. Schiffer
2007-11-19 06:57:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by grinningdemon
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 02:39:36 -0800 (PST), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Why would they change it to attach him to a different Legion?
I don't know. I was just pointing out it wasn't impossible.
It would be a complete reversal of what they've done by
bringing this traditional Legion (or close to it) back...he
was never associated with them and all of his ties are to the
post-Zero Hour version...
The Barry/Iris/Tornado Twins connect to both the original LSH & Bart.
How do that connect to the original Legion...I know the story
with Barry and Iris in the future came before Zero Hour but I
don't recall anything in it that tied them to that same future.
...
Pre-Crisis, the Tornado Twins were 30th century descendants of
Barry Allen and contemporaries of the Legionnaires, who got Barry's
powers temporarily in one story as part of a commemoration of the
Flash. Post-Crisis, it having been established that Barry and Iris
had lived together in the 30th century for a bit (and that they'd
had no children in the twentieth century for the Twins to be
descended from), "descendants" was specified to "children". In v4,
Five Years Later, the Legionnaires were adults and the Dominators
had occupied Earth. The Tornado Twins were captured and IIRC
killed by the occupiers. Bart was introduced as the child of one
of them, born (I think as a result of the Dominator experiments)
locked into super-speed, necessitating Iris's flight back in time,
etc.

Then came Zero Hour, and the new Legion. Bart was by then an
established character as Impulse, and so the retconned history was
adapted to include him, which in turn presumably inspired the
introduction of his cousin, XS. But Bart can tie into either or
both, writer's choice.

Mike
Duggy
2007-11-19 11:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by grinningdemon
How do that connect to the original Legion...
Because the Tornado Twins were contemporaries of the original Legion.
Post by grinningdemon
I know the story with
Barry and Iris in the future came before Zero Hour but I don't recall
anything in it that tied them to that same future.
That's nice.
Post by grinningdemon
Whoever said their timeline was wiped out? We don't know that at all.
Um... Brainy, IIRC. One of the Legion time that were trapped in the
Timestream when Superboy Reality-Punched it out of existence.
Post by grinningdemon
We've seen them briefly at the end of Infinite Crisis
We see them briefly in the multiverse during...
Post by grinningdemon
and, I believe,
at the end of 52...just one panel glimpses...
Where?
Post by grinningdemon
and there are so many other Legions running around...why not them too?
I'm sure they are one of the three... in the same "resembles" way as
the "original" team.

Point is, New Earth's Impulse is more likely connected to the current
team rather than the others.
Post by grinningdemon
They were my favorite version...at least by the end of the run.
They were my favorite at the beginning.

===
= DUG.
===
grinningdemon
2007-11-20 01:43:21 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:06:19 -0800 (PST), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
How do that connect to the original Legion...
Because the Tornado Twins were contemporaries of the original Legion.
Post by grinningdemon
I know the story with
Barry and Iris in the future came before Zero Hour but I don't recall
anything in it that tied them to that same future.
That's nice.
Post by grinningdemon
Whoever said their timeline was wiped out? We don't know that at all.
Um... Brainy, IIRC. One of the Legion time that were trapped in the
Timestream when Superboy Reality-Punched it out of existence.
It never showed him punching their reality out of existence...it just
showed them being lost in the timestream while hinting they would
eventually find their way home.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
We've seen them briefly at the end of Infinite Crisis
We see them briefly in the multiverse during...
Post by grinningdemon
and, I believe,
at the end of 52...just one panel glimpses...
Where?
I'm almost positive they were seen at one point during Booster's litte
tour of the 52 at the end there.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
and there are so many other Legions running around...why not them too?
I'm sure they are one of the three... in the same "resembles" way as
the "original" team.
Why would it be a team that "resembles" them when, unlike the original
Legion, they never went away.
Post by Duggy
Point is, New Earth's Impulse is more likely connected to the current
team rather than the others.
How do you figure that? There has been nothing to suggest he is in
any way tied to this "original" Legion...and the version of the Legion
you are talking about isn't actually the CURRENT version...which is
the one appearing in Supergirl and the Legion...there's as much
evidence tying Bart to that Legion as there is to the one in the
Lightning Saga at this point...which is none at all.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
They were my favorite version...at least by the end of the run.
They were my favorite at the beginning.
Duggy
2007-11-20 02:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
Whoever said their timeline was wiped out? We don't know that at all.
Um... Brainy, IIRC. One of the Legion time that were trapped in the
Timestream when Superboy Reality-Punched it out of existence.
It never showed him punching their reality out of existence...
No, of course not, because that was the surprise in Infinite Crisis,
this was one of the first references to it.

Remember, Geoff Johns wrote both stories.
Post by grinningdemon
it just showed them being lost in the timestream
They were in the timestream and expected to get back... then something
changed... like something was disrupting reality... this would be
Superboy from Infinite Crisis. Of course, he wasn't shown, but in
hindsight, it was pretty obvious.
Post by grinningdemon
while hinting they would eventually find their way home.
They sent the Titans home and said they'd find a way home... doesn't
mean they did.
Post by grinningdemon
I'm almost positive they were seen at one point during Booster's litte
tour of the 52 at the end there.
I'm almost certain that you are wrong.

You seem to be remembering the panel in Infinite Crisis when Alex is
seaching through all the fake Earths to find the perfect one... The
surviving Legionaire appear on Earth-247 or something. But those
Earths aren't the 52 and included a lot of things... The TV series
Wondergirl and the previous failled pilot Wonder Woman on a Earth
together, for example.
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
and there are so many other Legions running around...why not them too?
I'm sure they are one of the three... in the same "resembles" way as
the "original" team.
Why would it be a team that "resembles" them when, unlike the original
Legion, they never went away.
Because you can't read.

They did go away.
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Point is, New Earth's Impulse is more likely connected to the current
team rather than the others.
How do you figure that? There has been nothing to suggest he is in
any way tied to this "original" Legion...
Elements of his origin are tied to the original Legion.
Most of his history is tied the the reboot Legion.

However, I think that he is currently tied to the New Earth Legion,
which is supposedly the current one.
Post by grinningdemon
and the version of the Legion you are talking about isn't actually the CURRENT version...which is
the one appearing in Supergirl and the Legion...
Then you don't know what I'm talking about.

Once again, you're having reading issues.
Post by grinningdemon
there's as much evidence tying Bart to that Legion as there is to the one in the
Lightning Saga at this point...which is none at all.
Except that he exists on New Earth.

===
= DUG.
===
Duggy
2007-11-20 02:44:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
I'm almost positive they were seen at one point during Booster's litte
tour of the 52 at the end there.
I'm almost certain that you are wrong.
When I said "I'm almost certain" what I meant is:

"I have 52 week 52 open in front of me now, and no version of the LSH
appears."

Sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.

If you can't get hold of that issue, then I check this link:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DC_Multiverse_worlds#The_52>

An reference to something existing on one of the 52 worlds appears
here...

And I don't see a reference to the Reboot Legion.

Also, no mention of them after your Infinite Crisis misremembering
here:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Super-Heroes>

Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

===
= DUG.
===
grinningdemon
2007-11-21 05:23:21 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:44:59 -0800 (PST), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
I'm almost positive they were seen at one point during Booster's litte
tour of the 52 at the end there.
I'm almost certain that you are wrong.
"I have 52 week 52 open in front of me now, and no version of the LSH
appears."
Sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DC_Multiverse_worlds#The_52>
An reference to something existing on one of the 52 worlds appears
here...
And I don't see a reference to the Reboot Legion.
Also, no mention of them after your Infinite Crisis misremembering
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legion_of_Super-Heroes>
Are you sure you know what you are talking about?
I stand corrected...I was wrong about 52...but that Legion is still
out there until a story says they aren't...no matter what you
say...and, given your willingness to jump to conclusions and flat out
make shit up to justify your position, you might want to learn to be a
little more tolerant of different view points.

Once again, we've reached that point where we're just arguing in
circles and your obnoxious, condescending nature is dominating the
thread, so I'm done.
Duggy
2007-11-21 05:45:29 UTC
Permalink
I stand corrected... I was wrong about 52...
Yes, you were.
but that Legion is still out there
I hope so, but they're not the New Earth Legion.
until a story says they aren't...
You can't prove a negative.
no matter what you say...
When did I say they weren't?
and, given your willingness to jump to conclusions
The right conclusions.
and flat out make shit up to justify your position,
When? I invented examples of how things could work... completely
different to "justifying my position."

Or are you making things up?
you might want to learn to be a little more tolerant of different view points.
I don't like tolerance. Understanding is better.

I understand your point. And I'm sure that the Post-boot Legion is
the third Legion in the "Three Worlds" comments.

But that certain has nothing to do with a precise continuation of that
story.
Once again, we've reached that point where we're just arguing in circles
No, we've reached the point were you've realised the evidence is
against you...
and your obnoxious, condescending nature is dominating the thread, so I'm done.
Translation: "Shit, I've realised I was wrong, time to flat out make
shit up to justify my position."

===
= DUG.
===
grinningdemon
2007-11-21 05:16:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:39:01 -0800 (PST), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
Whoever said their timeline was wiped out? We don't know that at all.
Um... Brainy, IIRC. One of the Legion time that were trapped in the
Timestream when Superboy Reality-Punched it out of existence.
It never showed him punching their reality out of existence...
No, of course not, because that was the surprise in Infinite Crisis,
this was one of the first references to it.
Remember, Geoff Johns wrote both stories.
Geoff Johns also came up with Bart's brother's back story, which is
also tied to the reboot Legion...like Bart...this proves nothing.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
it just showed them being lost in the timestream
They were in the timestream and expected to get back... then something
changed... like something was disrupting reality... this would be
Superboy from Infinite Crisis. Of course, he wasn't shown, but in
hindsight, it was pretty obvious.
Hardly...Superboy's reality punches altered realities but we never
actually saw him erase any all together...in fact, many of these
changes haven't been explored yet.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
while hinting they would eventually find their way home.
They sent the Titans home and said they'd find a way home... doesn't
mean they did.
...and it doesn't mean they didn't, either.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
I'm almost positive they were seen at one point during Booster's litte
tour of the 52 at the end there.
I'm almost certain that you are wrong.
You seem to be remembering the panel in Infinite Crisis when Alex is
seaching through all the fake Earths to find the perfect one... The
surviving Legionaire appear on Earth-247 or something. But those
Earths aren't the 52 and included a lot of things... The TV series
Wondergirl and the previous failled pilot Wonder Woman on a Earth
together, for example.
You may be right on this...the point is they are still out there until
it is confirmed that they aren't.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
and there are so many other Legions running around...why not them too?
I'm sure they are one of the three... in the same "resembles" way as
the "original" team.
Why would it be a team that "resembles" them when, unlike the original
Legion, they never went away.
Because you can't read.
They did go away.
Show me where...they didn't die...and, even if their reality was
erased, that Legion is still out there somewhere.

Oh, and you are an ass.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Point is, New Earth's Impulse is more likely connected to the current
team rather than the others.
How do you figure that? There has been nothing to suggest he is in
any way tied to this "original" Legion...
Elements of his origin are tied to the original Legion.
Most of his history is tied the the reboot Legion.
However, I think that he is currently tied to the New Earth Legion,
which is supposedly the current one.
What are basing this on? Bart hasn't even been mentioned in reference
to either of the Legions running around right now...so basically you
made it up.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
and the version of the Legion you are talking about isn't actually the CURRENT version...which is
the one appearing in Supergirl and the Legion...
Then you don't know what I'm talking about.
Once again, you're having reading issues.
I know what you're talking about...but, as usual, your argument is
based on the stories you yourself have made up in your head.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
there's as much evidence tying Bart to that Legion as there is to the one in the
Lightning Saga at this point...which is none at all.
Except that he exists on New Earth.
Who cares? We don't even know which Legion (the "original" or the one
staring in the Legion series) is the future of "new earth?" Both of
them have crossed over with new earth...and continue to do so...so how
the hell would you know which is the right one? Personally, I'd give
the edge to the one that showed up first, crossed over with new earth
first, and has their own series...which actually costars a character
from new earth.
Duggy
2007-11-21 05:57:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Remember, Geoff Johns wrote both stories.
Geoff Johns also came up with Bart's brother's back story, which is
also tied to the reboot Legion...like Bart...this proves nothing.
Tied to the reboot Legion *before* Infinite Crisis.
Post by grinningdemon
Hardly...Superboy's reality punches altered realities but we never
actually saw him erase any all together...in fact, many of these
changes haven't been explored yet.
It altered the reality of the future... thus erasing that future.
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
while hinting they would eventually find their way home.
They sent the Titans home and said they'd find a way home... doesn't
mean they did.
...and it doesn't mean they didn't, either.
No, but at that point the 52 didn't exist. If it comes back as, say,
the Earth-22 future or something, that's great, it's my favourite
Legion, but there isn't a direct line there.
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
You seem to be remembering the panel in Infinite Crisis when Alex is
seaching through all the fake Earths to find the perfect one... The
surviving Legionaire appear on Earth-247 or something. But those
Earths aren't the 52 and included a lot of things... The TV series
Wondergirl and the previous failled pilot Wonder Woman on a Earth
together, for example.
You may be right on this...the point is they are still out there until
it is confirmed that they aren't.
Earth-247 no longer exists.
Post by grinningdemon
Show me where...they didn't die...and, even if their reality was
erased, that Legion is still out there somewhere.
I certainly hope so... but the chain isn't there, sorry.
Post by grinningdemon
Oh, and you are an ass.
Yes, yes I am... I fail to see the point you're trying to make.
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
However, I think that he is currently tied to the New Earth Legion,
which is supposedly the current one.
What are basing this on? Bart hasn't even been mentioned in reference
to either of the Legions running around right now...so basically you
made it up.
You have no idea what the words "I think" mean, do you?

There is no evidence that he was an anomoly on this Earth. The
monitors never mentioned him at all.

Thus, you have to assume that he comes from New Earth.
Post by grinningdemon
I know what you're talking about...but, as usual, your argument is
based on the stories you yourself have made up in your head.
Riight. You're the one saying that the New Earth Legion isn't the
current Supergirl Legion... which is bizarre.
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Except that he exists on New Earth.
Who cares? We don't even know which Legion (the "original" or the one
staring in the Legion series) is the future of "new earth?"
Shit.

The current Supergirl LSH was created by a Superboy-Prime punch
leading into Infinite Crisis.
Infinite Crisis created New Earth... 52 identical New Earths.
52 made 51 of those Earths different.
After 52 the first references were made to the "original" Legion.

Which one makes the most sense as the New Earth Legion?
Post by grinningdemon
Both of them have crossed over with new earth...and continue to do so...so how
the hell would you know which is the right one?
The story flow.
Post by grinningdemon
Personally, I'd give the edge to the one that showed up first, crossed over with new earth
first, and has their own series...which actually costars a character
from new earth.
The Supergirl Legion. Like I've been saying all along.

Thank you very much for catching up.

===
= DUG.
===
Dan McEwen
2007-11-21 19:52:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by grinningdemon
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:39:01 -0800 (PST), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Elements of his origin are tied to the original Legion.
Most of his history is tied the the reboot Legion.
However, I think that he is currently tied to the New Earth Legion,
which is supposedly the current one.
What are basing this on? Bart hasn't even been mentioned in reference
to either of the Legions running around right now...so basically you
made it up.
Correct. Hence, "I think..." Incidentally, nothingn ties Bart to the
original Legion. All history related to Bart was post-CoIE. He showed
up around the time Zero Hour was published. He's pretty firmly part of
the reboot Legion.
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
there's as much evidence tying Bart to that Legion as there is to
the one in the Lightning Saga at this point...which is none at all.
Except that he exists on New Earth.
Who cares? We don't even know which Legion (the "original" or the one
staring in the Legion series) is the future of "new earth?" Both of
them have crossed over with new earth...and continue to do so...so how
the hell would you know which is the right one? Personally, I'd give
the edge to the one that showed up first, crossed over with new earth
first, and has their own series...which actually costars a character
from new earth.
Just to put this all in perspective: Superman was part of the original
LSH (or something very similar), Superboy was part of the reboot Legion,
and Supergirl was part of the New Earth Legion. Why should =any=
assumptions be made about which future Bart is tied to when three heroes
from New Earth dealt with LSH teams from three different realities?
grinningdemon
2007-11-23 01:06:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan McEwen
Post by grinningdemon
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:39:01 -0800 (PST), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Elements of his origin are tied to the original Legion.
Most of his history is tied the the reboot Legion.
However, I think that he is currently tied to the New Earth Legion,
which is supposedly the current one.
What are basing this on? Bart hasn't even been mentioned in reference
to either of the Legions running around right now...so basically you
made it up.
Correct. Hence, "I think..." Incidentally, nothingn ties Bart to the
original Legion. All history related to Bart was post-CoIE. He showed
up around the time Zero Hour was published. He's pretty firmly part of
the reboot Legion.
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
there's as much evidence tying Bart to that Legion as there is to
the one in the Lightning Saga at this point...which is none at all.
Except that he exists on New Earth.
Who cares? We don't even know which Legion (the "original" or the one
staring in the Legion series) is the future of "new earth?" Both of
them have crossed over with new earth...and continue to do so...so how
the hell would you know which is the right one? Personally, I'd give
the edge to the one that showed up first, crossed over with new earth
first, and has their own series...which actually costars a character
from new earth.
Just to put this all in perspective: Superman was part of the original
LSH (or something very similar), Superboy was part of the reboot Legion,
and Supergirl was part of the New Earth Legion. Why should =any=
assumptions be made about which future Bart is tied to when three heroes
from New Earth dealt with LSH teams from three different realities?
I'm just going by what we've seen thus far...as you say, Bart's
history has always been tied to the reboot Legion and there has been
no evidence that has changed so, until I read otherwise, I will assume
that origin stands...that's really all any of us can do for any of
these characters at this point with the constant continuity revisions.
Duggy
2007-11-23 01:28:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by grinningdemon
I'm just going by what we've seen thus far...as you say, Bart's
history has always been tied to the reboot Legion and there has been
no evidence that has changed so, until I read otherwise, I will assume
that origin stands...that's really all any of us can do for any of
these characters at this point with the constant continuity revisions.
Him or Iris haven't been mentioned as anomolies.

===
= DUG.
===
grinningdemon
2007-11-23 07:34:49 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:28:56 -0800 (PST), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
I'm just going by what we've seen thus far...as you say, Bart's
history has always been tied to the reboot Legion and there has been
no evidence that has changed so, until I read otherwise, I will assume
that origin stands...that's really all any of us can do for any of
these characters at this point with the constant continuity revisions.
Him or Iris haven't been mentioned as anomolies.
===
= DUG.
===
This doesn't necessarily mean anything...he's dead (currently anyway)
and Iris may have been overlooked...it's not as if the Monitors have
been consistent about their targets...for example, we know from the
issue about the Jokester that Duella Dent wasn't the only anomaly from
his world to make it to new earth...and yet she was targeted while
Talon is still out there somewhere (he was a Titan during the missing
year) and no one has mentioned or gone after him yet (I don't think he
was one of the ones killed during WWIII, was he? I forget.)...Booster
is jumping around the timestream and has taken a tour of the 52 and
they aren't going after him...it's all very arbitrary.
Duggy
2007-11-23 08:26:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by grinningdemon
This doesn't necessarily mean anything...he's dead (currently anyway)
He wasn't at the beginning of Countdown. And you'd think that the
monitors would have mentioned him as being a solved problem.
Post by grinningdemon
and Iris may have been overlooked...
Because she's only destroying the Source Wall a little be.
Post by grinningdemon
it's not as if the Monitors have been consistent about their targets...for example, we know from the
issue about the Jokester that Duella Dent wasn't the only anomaly from
his world to make it to new earth...
Yes? Tell me more.
Post by grinningdemon
...Booster is jumping around the timestream and has taken a tour of the 52 and
they aren't going after him...it's all very arbitrary.
Rip could be hiding 'em.

===
= DUG.
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grinningdemon
2007-11-24 03:39:11 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 00:26:22 -0800 (PST), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
This doesn't necessarily mean anything...he's dead (currently anyway)
He wasn't at the beginning of Countdown. And you'd think that the
monitors would have mentioned him as being a solved problem.
Again, the Monitors don't seem to be interested in every "anomaly"...I
don't know if this is a story choice or just that some books or
stories aren't coordinating with Countdown.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
and Iris may have been overlooked...
Because she's only destroying the Source Wall a little be.
Again, the Monitors seem to be choosing their targets
arbitrarily...and they are pretty much preoccupied with events outside
of new earth at the moment.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
it's not as if the Monitors have been consistent about their targets...for example, we know from the
issue about the Jokester that Duella Dent wasn't the only anomaly from
his world to make it to new earth...
Yes? Tell me more.
Talon (sidekick to Owlman) was shown to be Duella's boyfriend in the
issue about the Jokester and he was shown in Teen Titans to be one of
the many, many Titans who came and went during the missing
year...which presumably means he's still on new earth like Duella was
when she was killed.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
...Booster is jumping around the timestream and has taken a tour of the 52 and
they aren't going after him...it's all very arbitrary.
Rip could be hiding 'em.
Who knows? It remains unspecified.
Duggy
2007-11-24 07:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by grinningdemon
Again, the Monitors don't seem to be interested in every "anomaly"...I
don't know if this is a story choice or just that some books or
stories aren't coordinating with Countdown.
Bart would be a big one, though. Especially since his death was part
of Countdown...
Post by grinningdemon
Talon (sidekick to Owlman) was shown to be Duella's boyfriend in the
issue about the Jokester and he was shown in Teen Titans to be one of
the many, many Titans who came and went during the missing
year...which presumably means he's still on new earth like Duella was
when she was killed.
Same Talon or two different Talons?
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Rip could be hiding 'em.
Who knows? It remains unspecified.
Rip's hiding them from someone fucking with time... I'm sure that
makes them a little hidden from the Monitors.

We know the Bleed hides you from the Monitors, why not the Timestream.

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= DUG.
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grinningdemon
2007-11-24 08:44:50 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 23:15:41 -0800 (PST), Duggy
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
Again, the Monitors don't seem to be interested in every "anomaly"...I
don't know if this is a story choice or just that some books or
stories aren't coordinating with Countdown.
Bart would be a big one, though. Especially since his death was part
of Countdown...
His death wasn't part of Countdown...just the aftermath...and it still
doesn't add up...if nothing else, the Monitors should be after Iris
for trying to change the future and save Bart...some of the characters
who are on their hit list are there because they were supposed to die
and didn't...if that's the issue at hand then it would seem that
someone actively trying to change these things would be a problem for
them...I just think they're being overlooked...be it by Monitors or
writers.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
Talon (sidekick to Owlman) was shown to be Duella's boyfriend in the
issue about the Jokester and he was shown in Teen Titans to be one of
the many, many Titans who came and went during the missing
year...which presumably means he's still on new earth like Duella was
when she was killed.
Same Talon or two different Talons?
Well, Talon briefly appeared in the first arc of Teen Titans
OYL...just to show that he had been a Titan during the missing
year...no explanation was given for who the hell he was (some people
at the time thought he was Jason Todd in a new identity)...he didn't
appear anywhere again until the Search of Ray Palmer - Crime Syndicate
(or whatever it was called) issue which was basically an origin story
for the Jokester (Joker of Earth 3 and the hero to Owlman's
villain)...in it, Talon was shown to be Owlman's sidekick who defected
to be with Duella (Joker's Daughter)...they vanished and Jokester was
looking for them...we know Duella ended up on new earth where she was
killed by a Monitor...it stands to reason that, if she ended up there,
then the Talon who was a Titan along with her in the missing year was
the likely the same one...but there has been no explanation of his
whereabouts and the Monitor who went to kill her has shown no interest
in him...it's odd...I'm not sure if it's a writer oversight or if it's
deliberate for some reason.
Post by Duggy
Post by grinningdemon
Post by Duggy
Rip could be hiding 'em.
Who knows? It remains unspecified.
Rip's hiding them from someone fucking with time... I'm sure that
makes them a little hidden from the Monitors.
We know the Bleed hides you from the Monitors, why not the Timestream.
Monitors don't seem to have any trouble tracking Donna, Kyle, Jason,
and Bob...they are only actually hiden when they're in the
Bleed...when they leave it, they're exposed...even if the timestream
were the same, Booster would still be exposed whenever he popped out
somewhere.

Given the similarities between Booster's time-hopping and the
Challengers' dimension-hopping, it seems odd to me that this book
HASN'T tied into Countdown somehow.

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